
this tuesday past i met with a couple who wanted to get married. they seemed very young, but were old enough at least to have two children. the man has been recently laid-off and the woman is a stay-at-home-mom. all in all they appeared to be very nice kids.
during the conversation i asked if they had any church affiliation, and straightforwardly they answered no. i then asked one of my favorite questions: "why then do you want to be married in a church?"
you could see this idea had never entered their minds, which led to a rather awkward silence. finally the woman mumbled something about this is how it's done. i took this to mean that church weddings were how things got done in her family because she went on to describe how the church where her parents and the rest of her family had been married was not available to them.
not willing to let this go, i asked why, and she paused, giving me a sheepish look, and then said, "their pastor turned us down because we have two children out of wedlock, and the church people wouldn't let him do something like that."
ouch...
in that moment, facing this couple, this other pastor’s answer seemed very dated and it seemed counter-intuitive (re:stupid). i wondered, does anyone use the word wedlock any more? and then i realized he was telling them they needed to be married, just not in his church because, “we do have standards, after all!” (my words, not his)
so, what he really had done was just push the problem(?) to someone else. in this case me, the liberal baptist.
to be honest, my initial response was actually more like righteous anger, with my thoughts running something like this: "how dare this blockhead deny these kids a wedding." but then later that day i simmered down because as a baptist i believe in church freedom, which means every church calls its own shots based upon its own calling and collective conscience.
then yesterday, i began thinking about those two kids and what their impression of the church must be. i wondered, do they feel judged, or were they just relieved to find someone willing to do the ceremony? will this be the excuse they needed to dismiss church altogether for a lifetime? is their any chance their two children could have a church foundation? after some thought my actual impression was they couldn’t have cared less about the entire thing.
finally, then, today, thinking about this incident, i had to confess to myself that i am just plain lost in this post-christendom world. almost everything i once knew blew-up in my face a few years back and i seem to be permanently out of step. it’s like being in a foreign country without familiarity of language or culture.
so today, i feel very old...
ONCE I WAS AN ENEMY OF GOD- SEPARATED BY MY OWN SIN- IT WAS NOT THE CHURCH THAT CAME TO RESCUE ME EVEN WHILE I DID NOT KNOW THAT I WAS LOST. A MOTHER SHARED WITH ME THAT I WAS PRECIOUS TO HER AND JESUS. AN AUNT GATHERED ME UP LIKE A HEN WOULD HER CHICKS AS THE WORLD STOOD POINTING THE FINGER. PEOPLE EVEN IN THIS POST-EVERYTHING WORLD DESPERATELY WANT TO KNOW THAT THERE IS SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO CARES AND LOVES THEM. THEY NO LONGER EVEN KNOW HIS NAME- BUT WE DO. THEY ARE BABIES STILL GATHERING LAUREL LEAVES FOR A GOD THEY DO NOT REALLY KNOW- FIGURING WHAT COULD IT HURT- BUT WE KNOW HIS NAME. THEY STILL WANT THE BEST FOR THEIR BABIES-THEY STILL WANT TO MATTER- THEY STILL STAND NAKED HOLDING THEIR PITIFUL FIST FULL OF LAUREL LEAVES- WAITING TO BE TAUGHT THE SONG ONCE AGAIN- "OH WHAT A WONDER THAT JESUS LOVES ME" IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN BY THE MISSIONAL CHURCH? YFB
ReplyDeleteHey there anonymous,
ReplyDeleteRant style comments are certainly par for the course in the blog world. But all capitals means you are shouting, angry, screaming even. I'm assuming you just didn't know. So now you do.
Mark, I've been in the same situation. I used to be irritated, and I still am when I feel that our precious church is nothing more than a pretty candle stand or nice table cloths. Just another prop that needs to be in place.
Then again, aren't we to be there for whatever impulse brings them in? No easy answer. I guess we just take each case as an individual situation, which of course it is.
Mark. I live in Shawnee OK and just had a similar approach from a couple who had been told no by another clergy because they were living together. I too wondered what their understanding of church must be. I couldn't do the wedding, but referred them to another minister that would.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I like the language you use on the description of your site: we who are saying grace at the graveside of christendom must give an account to the future
in the end, the reason i decided to perform the wedding was because i wanted to open a connection with this young couple and because i believe they should be married. i know some will disagree with this.
ReplyDeleteAbout twenty years ago my mother and step-father wanted to be married in the Baptist church in Dallas, Texas our families had been members of for over 40 years. To give you some perspective, they are now in their eighties. They were not spring chickens when they decided they wanted to commit the rest of their lives together. The pastor of the church would not officiate the ceremony because my step-father had been previously married and was divorced. (My mother was a widow as my father died when I was ten.) They were allowed to use the church facilities but had to find another minister who would perform the ceremony. I am sure the gentleman they found was a very good pastor, yet my mother and step-father had no emotional relationship with him. Additionally, since he was from a foreign country, his accent made it difficult to understand what he was saying. I remember it was sort of sad and sort of humorous when my mom did not know at what point she was supposed to say, "I do."
ReplyDeleteI am a wedding minister in San Antonio and my ministry is for those couples who do not belong to a church or belong to a church that cannot or will not support them. I have officiated ceremonies from A to Z, from Atheist to Zen Buddhist. Yes, even atheists understand the importance of ritual and ceremony in our human experience.
It seems to me the church would want to help families celebrate the milestones in life. Not because it would bring more "sheep into the fold" but because it is the right thing to do.
(I would like to be more than anonymous but I am not sure which selection I should use. Most my friends call me Jim)
Some parts of this post made me want to cry and others laugh.
ReplyDeleteThe parts that made me laugh are well when you fill the role of clergy that is not is not found in scripture and combine that with church as an institution these are the kinds of things you can expect as a member of the clergy in institutional church. Sorry you may not see the humor in this. Oh, and a "church foundation" are you kidding me! I strongly suggest reading the the "Naked Church" by Wayne Jacobsen its out of print, but you can find it free in PDF on his web site at www.lifestream.org.
The part that made me cry though is of course they feel judged and this certainly will be a stumbling block to them and their coming to faith.
But then I smile when I think that Father loves them and if someone simply demonstrates that to them they will know it too.
Hi Mark. I'm from a pretty conservative background (Independent Christian Churches) but I have no qualms marrying any man and woman. I view it as another part of my ministry. I hope that in the short period we interact with one another that they find a Christian who loves them despite their sin, who is genuinely concerned about their well-being, and most importantly see a glimpse of Jesus through me.
ReplyDeleteAnother thought on this is, how do you expect a post-Christian generation to even understand what God expects from them. You have got to first earn their trust and respect before they even listen. You can't expect them to conform to your morals when they don't have the same base. So take the opportunities given to you by God and use them for his glory.
Also, I don't even charge for use of the church building. It's just another way to get them through the doors and into their lives.
A friend of mine who is in no substantial way Christian recently made a passing reference to me marrying he and his girlfriend down the road. He seemed put off when I informed him that I could not in good conscience perform it (this is besides the fact that the bride is Greek Orthodox and I am Methodist). Here's how I put it to him: "You have no affiliation with a church and have never shown any interest in God, much less shown evidence of desiring God to play a significant part in your life."
ReplyDeleteAnd then I hit him with the real kicker:
"Neither of you are religious in any sense, so why do you want to put a Christian window dressing on it? It would make much more sense for me to be your witness down at the county courthouse, which as your friend I would gladly do."
I certainly feel for folks who have been harmed by the church. But it is not really hospitable - instead it is a lie - to offer them the ministry of Christ's church if we do not feel it is important enough to insist on conformity to her . It is not too much to ask those who wish to be married in accordance with her laws and traditions and by her clergy to respect that the Body of Christ is not simply another stop along the wedding planning trail. Otherwise, we become little more than vendors.